An Intimate Conversation with Banning and Jenene
Banning and Jenene sit down and have an open conversation about miracles and the supernatural life of Christianity. What does it mean to live the normal Christian life—to honor God and have gratitude, to believe like little children that anything is possible?
Read their down-to-earth conversation about it . . . and a lot more.
J: Tell me about your heart on miracles.
B: I think miracles are just, honestly, a normal part of the Christian life. I think it’s part of the gospel. The gospel is a gospel of power, so [it’s] the supernatural intervention of God—the miracle working power of God—and it’s how Jesus lived. If we say we really want to follow Jesus, [then] we want to follow His example in how He showed us how to live on the earth. I mean, miracles were a massive part of how He demonstrated who He was, and how He demonstrated His love. It’s very interesting…even when it comes to salvation, so much of this stuff, when we pray for a harvest, miracles are very tied into that. Even in Acts, it was the lame man that was healed that then ignited five thousand men to give their lives to Christ because of what they saw. Jesus demonstrated and taught. So it wasn’t just teaching. He’d set a guy free and then have a conversation about that. And then also, even whenever Jesus, when His authority was questioned about whether or not He had authority to forgive sins, He didn’t argue the point…He healed the guy. So I think it’s very much tied into that stuff. That demonstration of the power of God reveals His character. It reveals Him on new levels. A lot of people can explain away a bunch of stuff, but when they come face-to-face with His power, it really does require a different level of consideration. And it’s part of our inheritance. It’s 100% part of our inheritance, it was paid for on the cross. So it’s not just about demonstrating to the world. It’s that the power of God in my life was actually paid for on the cross. Healing was paid for on the cross—miracles, they’re accessible now because of that, to every believer and that’s why this is our inheritance. He paid a very high price so that we can walk in this and experience it.
J: Wow, I love it! Everything you’re saying is amazing to me. And the part about the inheritance is so divine, not that you would know this, but this next issue, there’s going to be a running theme of inheritance.
B: I think one of the ways we honor God is that we actually receive what He already paid for. We need to refuse to settle for anything less than what He already paid for. So if He paid a great price for something, which is the chastisement for our peace, He paid a great price for peace in our lives. By His stripes we are healed—He paid a great price for healing in our lives. If He paid that price, me not actually receiving that inheritance is not honoring of God. Receiving what He paid for is actually one of the ways we can be most grateful, too. I can thank Him all day long, but if I don’t actually access what He paid for, it’s not true gratitude.
J: What a great conversation. So, then what would you say to someone who really wants to operate in miracles and just has a passion for it even, you know, but they just have fear…like they’re just afraid of it? I know for me, even though I saw it and I kept wondering Where is it? it still was something that I was a little afraid of. I thought, you know, people are going to think certain things if they know that I think like this (of course everything’s different now, but) I mean, do you come across that?
B: Well, of course. This is not a harsh statement, but the fear of man—wondering what people are going to think about us and whether or not we’ll stand out and all of that—you have to wrestle through that in any area. But at the end of the day, if I have a heart for this then I have to get my mind renewed. My mindset has to shift, so I have to change the way I think about this stuff. And the way I change how I think is…I’ve got to get into His word and really go look at Scripture for this stuff and say, “Lord, I really need You to renew my mind, how I view the Kingdom and the supernatural miracles” and allow the Holy Spirit to renew your mind with that and the Word. And at some level, you just have to lay down your reputation. But you have to lay that down for anything if you want to be used by God at all. You’re going to face the same questions for any risk-taking.
J: Thank You, God. You said another prophetic word because the magazine’s for the Risk-takers. So yeah, that’s it, right? We have to be willing to risk. And isn’t God doing incredible things? He’s opening doors for the Kingdom to really step in and do these things, and it’s the ones that are humble and have been through hell and back and are willing to risk and they’re willing to do what needs to be done. God, He seems like, is really using those people. There’s a certain group of us, I guess you could say—leaders—hungry to see manifestation and the glory.
B: And a lot of it is just obedience based, honestly. He said go heal the sick, go cast out demons, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers. Faith is not the lack of fear. I think, sometimes, it’s obedience even in the face of fear. So if I’m intent on being obedient, I’m going to be obedient, even when I feel that thing of fear. And I think faith manifests in those moments. So, it’s not like we get to a point and we’re like, “I no longer have any fear in my life.” It’s like, “No, even in spite of fear, I choose obedience,” and faith manifests. But again, you can say that in stepping out in miracles, or you could say that with taking a risk for God. Just period, it’s so tied to the same thing.
J: That’s another key word—that obedience piece, I think, is actually bigger than we think because sometimes (at least, I’ve found with miracles and the supernatural) it’s like God will ask you to do something. You’ll know it’s because He has a miracle on the other side, but yet He’s asking you to do this, and then He’s going to ask you to go here and then go here and go here. And He will have you, sort of in a way, jump through these hoops and your spirit affirms that, but you have to be willing to trust Him. It’s also, move now when [He says] to move. So it’s obedience and in the timing of God.
B: So when it comes to miracles, yeah, I think it’s both. I think there’s two things going on. One is when it comes to healing. I think there’s an authority in our lives that we can pray for the sick, but there are also times we see in Scripture where the Holy Spirit was present to heal. So I do think there are times when there’s the moving of the Holy Spirit in my life that I’ve got to go do this, but there are also times where it’s not necessarily the moving of the Holy Spirit, it’s just that He put an authority in my life to pray for the sick. And it doesn’t mean that I pray for every single person I see. Again, I think we see in Scripture that there are different ways that this healing happens. And sometimes it’s that the Spirit was there to heal; sometimes it’s just stepping out in authority. I think it’s a little of all of it, yes. Obedience, though, is key. I would just say, obedience is so critical because obedience is tied to intimacy, too. Ultimately, obedience has to be tied to, “I want to do what You’re asking out of love.” This is why at some level, if your Christianity is duty-based, if it’s shame-based, if it’s guilt-based, if it’s task-based, [remember] it has to be intimacy-based—we are doing this out of love. Even my obedience is not to an employer, it’s to a Father who loves me dearly and I love Him dearly. Our obedience has to be birthed out of intimacy and I think that’s how this journey then doesn’t get us into “I’m doing things because I feel like I have to.”
J: It is the heart of Jesus.
B: It absolutely is the heart of Jesus that people would be set free. It’s absolutely the heart of Jesus that people would not live in bondage. I mean, when we say, “He came to destroy the works of the devil (the devil came to steal, came to kill and came to destroy), so anywhere something is stealing, killing or destroying, His heart is that people would experience life and life more abundantly— not death. And He says, “I’ve given you authority over these things.” That’s why even the issue of cancer for us is, “No, we go after that issue” because cancer is stealing, killing and destroying. And Jesus came to give life and life more abundantly. This is us even. This is what’s on His heart, so this is what’s on our heart because as we draw close to Him in intimacy, His heart to see people experience life becomes our heart. We’re not okay with the devil destroying people’s lives.
J: Absolutely. So, do you feel in the Spirit…are you getting affirmation from people that operate really strong in the prophetic (which, you probably have a lot around [your community]) that there’s going to be a massive move in this area that’s going to be happening like really soon, like there’s a birthing of this because the Bride is preparing herself?
B: Yeah, I would say already there’s been a real shift in churches, on how they approach the supernatural. Like it is something, you’ll see even in conservative churches. Healing services are starting to pop up, so there are definitely things shifting. But I think ultimately, the harvest, I think that’s what you’re describing at some level. Is the church fully experiencing the freedom that’s available? There’s just a dissatisfaction. Ultimately, as well, there’s light and darkness. In a world full of bondage, true freedom has to be present. So I think much of this is tied into the harvest. I would say that if we’re really going to see the harvest come in, the supernatural power of God has to be present. And people getting set free and really experiencing the fullness that God has to offer, I think, is tied to power as well. I don’t necessarily know if I would say I’m hearing a stirring around that. I think it’s just something the Lord’s been intent on us moving towards and is going to get His church to.
J: Yeah. Yeah, I’m seeing that shift too.
B: There’s definitely a broader acceptance of the supernatural power of God in our midst. They may not all fully embrace the level that Bethel is, but there is a shift that’s beginning to happen where people are beginning to realize we can’t do “this” without “that.” I think it becomes more and more evident too, that current state of whatever it is—where society is or what people are encountering. Or again, this is not to paint a bad picture or anything, but the most medicated generation the world’s ever seen, a ton of confusion happening—all this stuff, we’re like, “If you don’t come in power, we don’t have answers for this.” So there’s a real hunger for God to come in power for sure.
J: The Lord’s told me, “You’ve got to slowly introduce this bigger understanding of the dark side.” To understand how much power’s been given because they don’t really have authority, but they have whatever we’ll allow them to have. We don’t understand, sort of, the open doorways and that piece of it. We need to understand that because we need to know what we’re fully up against. We also need to understand why the enemy is much more strategic, so if we can start to train people to understand a little bit, too, about the other side, then we can see even bigger shifts happening. To me, you’re sort of addressing that. Like, you see this stuff going on. It’s really getting heated the last couple of years, especially politically, you know, the enemy is moving in that area. So the Lord needs us to be willing to step out in those areas in the dark places, in the places where the enemy is systemically working. B: And when you do, you better know the authority that God’s given you and the power that’s available. J: As Kingdom people, He wants us to have authority over every place of culture, right? And so, to me it’s sort of a given. But I think there is a shift where people are wanting to know more. They’re getting more hungry, right? Wanting to learn more…
B: Yeah, I agree.
J: Okay so how young is too young? Is there “too young” for people to operate in miracles or children to operate in miracles?
B: Well, I guess the question you’ll have to answer is, “Is the Spirit different in a 5 year old than He is in a 50 year old?” So what we would say is, if there is no junior Holy Spirit, then, if I have the Spirit of God living on the inside of me, the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, it’s connected to that. If the Spirit of God is inside of you, then you can do miracles. And I would say at some level, kids operate a little bit easier ‘cause they haven’t been taught out of it. I would say most believers that wouldn’t believe in the supernatural have been taught into that spot. If you just went straight to Scripture, you wouldn’t come away with “miracles aren’t for today.” So, so much of unbelief in our lives, we’ve been taught into it, and kids haven’t actually been taught unbelief yet. They don’t have as much clutter to get through in some of that stuff as far as just that “child-like” faith. You know, we’ve seen little kids lay hands on people and get healed and it’s because the Holy Spirit inside of them is just as great as the Holy Spirit inside of me. I don’t have a greater Holy Spirit than they have.
J: And their heart is so pure, too, right? And I think that’s the other piece of miracles. I think our heart collectively, the Church, is getting more pure, is getting more where we’re just desiring more— to see the manifestation of the Kingdom.
“So most people have some grid of like ‘I believe in God, I just think He’s distant. I just think He doesn’t care. I just think He’s not interested.’ And all of a sudden that Word of knowledge comes and it’s like, ‘Wow! I’m seen by God!’ That is a really powerful experience.”
B: And I agree, I think that kids are naturally hungry for that stuff. Kids are naturally hungry and they don’t go through all the stuff you’re talking about. They’re not going through “What are people going to think of me if I believe this?” That kind of comes on us as we get older. We’re a lot more worried about what people are thinking about us, but little kids, for sure they don’t. I don’t think it’s as weird as people think. I think there are things that are outside of our box in the Kingdom that a stigma is attached to. However, I don’t think it’s quite as weird. I mean just stopping and going, “Hey, can I pray for you?” People have this picture that it’s like this… but it’s just like, “Hey, can I pray for you? I don’t think that’s God’s will for your life that you’re living with back pain. I think God has a different plan for you. Can I pray for you?” Like, it’s a lot more natural than we think and that phrase “naturally supernatural” has been going around and it is a lot more natural. It’s not a big choir and a moment and so much of this stuff. So much of the supernatural is happening outside a church service just by people going, “Can I pray for you?” Or “I have a word for you.” Or “I had a dream about you last night.” Or whatever it is. And there are definitely the supernatural manifestations of people encountering God or people being set free or whatever else. But so much of this stuff is a lot more natural than people think it is.
J: I think that’s a wonderful point and I would tend to totally agree with you, I mean, completely. God uses us in that way. Words of knowledge is such a powerful gift too, right, and to me it’s almost like miracles with that.
B: It’s all the gifts of the Spirit stuff, it’s all the working of the Holy Spirit, yeah.
J: Totally, because people want to know God is hearing them. Like, if they’re following any kind of faith or not, they still want to know.
B: They want to know that God sees us, they want to know that God sees “me.” And most people believe in God. It’s a very very small percentage of people that don’t actually believe there’s a God who exists. They may be loud, but they’re a small percentage. So most people have some grid of like, “I believe in a God, I just think He’s distant. I just think He doesn’t care. I just think He’s not interested.” And all of a sudden, that word of knowledge comes and it’s like, “Wow, I’m seen by God!” That is a really powerful experience.
J: Yeah, it is. It’s actually one of my favorite giftings. It’s really a casual thing.
B: Yeah, it’s not like this, “Thus sayeth the Lord…”
“So most people have some grid of like ‘I believe in God, I just think He’s distant. I just think He doesn’t care. I just think He’s not interested.’ And all of a sudden that Word of knowledge comes and it’s like, ‘Wow! I’m seen by God!’ That is a really powerful experience.”